You were downloading from the Office for Windows site, right? Active X controls do not work on the Mac ... at all. Some of the templates designed for Windows Word *will* work and others will not. To work around some of these issues (not counting the Active X issue), see this article:
Why are the templates on the Microsoft Office website being locked to only Office 2007 Windows, when 2008 Mac is supposed to be the same/compatible based on the same file structure and features?
They are not "locked" in most cases. However, Office 2007 has an automatic
installer that runs in Windows. To use them on the Mac, you have to do the
installation manually. The instructions for using PC Word templates in Mac
Word are here: http://word.mvps.org/mac/Using-Windows-Templates.html
Please not that any Word 2007 templates that rely on features that Word 2008
doesn't have, won't work. There is no indication of this, you just have to
try them.
However, your post is making several assumptions that are not exactly true.
When discussing the two products, particularly before an audience that are
not all skilled computer professionals, we need to be very careful about
what we say, otherwise we will mislead people and they will get a nasty
shock.
1) Office 2008 is NOT supposed to be "the same" as Office 2007. It isn't,
and Microsoft never said it was. Office 2008 is a substantial cut-down of
Office 2007. Many Office 2007 functions are changed or missing in Office
2008, and some are not needed because Mac OS X has them built-in.
2) Office 2008 is not "based on the same features" as Office 2007. Office
2008 is new code, written for the Intel Macintosh. That code was designed
to have "most" of the same functions and features as Office 2007. But by no
means all of them. And Office 2007 does not have all of the features of
Office 2008, either. They are different products, designed for different
markets.
3) Yes, Office 2008 uses the same file structure as Office 2007. However,
the file structure is a "language". Whether Office 2008 can correctly
process the content of a given file, depends upon what that language says.
Office 2007 is capable of producing artefacts that Office 2008 cannot fully
edit. In those cases, Office 2008 will down-convert the artefact into an
artefact it can work with.
Returning to your Templates question, many Word 2007 templates contain VBA
macros. If they do, they will not work in Office 2008, because Office 2008
has no VBA interpreter. Some Office 2007 templates contain Visio
illustrations. If they do, they "may not" work in Office 2008. Some Office
2007 templates rely in the PC's encryption feature. These will not work in
Office 2008.
Generically, anything that says it is for Word 2003 or earlier is worth a
try. All of them will work, unless they contain macros. Word 2007
templates will nearly all work, but the results may be a bit unpredictable
if they contain Document Parts that Word 2008 does not have.
Try a few out: you will soon work out which ones are useable and which ones
are not
Cheers
On 18/01/08 1:45 PM, in article ee88e7a.0@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Gary" wrote:
> Why are the templates on the Microsoft Office website being locked to only
> Office 2007 Windows, when 2008 Mac is supposed to be the same/compatible based
> on the same file structure and features?
My only concern is that we are unable to download them as many of the templates need Office Genuine Advantage. How do we get this to work with Office Mac or get aditional templates.
Daiya, we need to take down the article that tells people how to do this,
until we can get it fixed.
Wow!! The destruction is TOTAL!!
The bottom line (now...) is "If you do not have access to a copy of Windows
Office, you will have to ask a friend to download it for you and send it to
you."
The PC office website had a hole in the fence: when you tried to download,
it would complain that you were on a Mac and then let you in anyway.
I guess the unreasonable sods are now taking the view that since we haven't
paid for them, we can't have them!! We are being steered off to the
Mactopia site that is constructed just for Mac users. Problem is, the
Mactopia site is totally pooched right now: all of the Templates have
disappeared!
Sorry about this: We will get onto them to have that fixed, but it may not
happen immediately. Allow at least a week.
Cheers
On 19/01/08 6:02 AM, in article ee88e7a.3@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Gary" wrote:
> My only concern is that we are unable to download them as many of the
> templates need Office Genuine Advantage. How do we get this to work with
> Office Mac or get aditional templates.
I have just discovered that Microsoft has repaired the hole in the back
fence through which we used to be able to get into the Office 2007
Downloads.
Sadly, the ONLY way to get an Office 2007 template now is to have a copy of
Office 2007. One you or a friend has downloaded the template, it should
work fine in Mac Office.
Cheers
On 18/01/08 9:01 PM, in article C3B6BD22.E04B%john@mcghie.name, "John
McGhie" wrote:
> Hi Gary:
>
> They are not "locked" in most cases. However, Office 2007 has an automatic
> installer that runs in Windows. To use them on the Mac, you have to do the
> installation manually. The instructions for using PC Word templates in Mac
> Word are here:
> http://word.mvps.org/mac/Using-Windows-Templates.html
>
> Please not that any Word 2007 templates that rely on features that Word 2008
> doesn't have, won't work. There is no indication of this, you just have to
> try them.
>
> However, your post is making several assumptions that are not exactly true.
> When discussing the two products, particularly before an audience that are
> not all skilled computer professionals, we need to be very careful about
> what we say, otherwise we will mislead people and they will get a nasty
> shock.
>
> 1) Office 2008 is NOT supposed to be "the same" as Office 2007. It isn't,
> and Microsoft never said it was. Office 2008 is a substantial cut-down of
> Office 2007. Many Office 2007 functions are changed or missing in Office
> 2008, and some are not needed because Mac OS X has them built-in.
>
> 2) Office 2008 is not "based on the same features" as Office 2007. Office
> 2008 is new code, written for the Intel Macintosh. That code was designed
> to have "most" of the same functions and features as Office 2007. But by no
> means all of them. And Office 2007 does not have all of the features of
> Office 2008, either. They are different products, designed for different
> markets.
>
> 3) Yes, Office 2008 uses the same file structure as Office 2007. However,
> the file structure is a "language". Whether Office 2008 can correctly
> process the content of a given file, depends upon what that language says.
> Office 2007 is capable of producing artefacts that Office 2008 cannot fully
> edit. In those cases, Office 2008 will down-convert the artefact into an
> artefact it can work with.
>
> Returning to your Templates question, many Word 2007 templates contain VBA
> macros. If they do, they will not work in Office 2008, because Office 2008
> has no VBA interpreter. Some Office 2007 templates contain Visio
> illustrations. If they do, they "may not" work in Office 2008. Some Office
> 2007 templates rely in the PC's encryption feature. These will not work in
> Office 2008.
>
> Generically, anything that says it is for Word 2003 or earlier is worth a
> try. All of them will work, unless they contain macros. Word 2007
> templates will nearly all work, but the results may be a bit unpredictable
> if they contain Document Parts that Word 2008 does not have.
>
> Try a few out: you will soon work out which ones are useable and which ones
> are not
>
> Cheers
>
>
> On 18/01/08 1:45 PM, in article ee88e7a.0@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Gary"
> wrote:
>
>> Why are the templates on the Microsoft Office website being locked to only
>> Office 2007 Windows, when 2008 Mac is supposed to be the same/compatible
>> based
>> on the same file structure and features?
Sure I do as well, but that doesn't stop me. I know I am using the
better system and don't have the headache of 5-10 thousand viri,
trogans, or worms, staring at me each day.
Jim Bridges wrote:
> I wondered where the templates were. Does anyone else here feel like a
> 2nd class citizen in Windows World?
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |pjones@kimbanet.com, ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is just an example of Microsoft treating its MAC users as a second class user. Personally, i believe that Office for Mac and Office for Windows should in as much as possible be the same with simular features and compatibility.
For example, at the college that I work at the students in the Honors program receive Macs but then can not use Access as might be required for one of their classes.
I think that they should have taken the time and care to include compatible scripting or translators for automatic tasks that would work on both platforms. I.E. Excel's Solver
There should be more direct crossover of features and they should be but one Office Website on Microsoft with shared resources and templates.
Yes I agree with you that MicroSoft treats Mac users as second class
citizen. Its been that way since college days, when Steve Jobs, and
Steve Wozniak refused to allow Bill Gates to partner with them when they
first started Apple. He never got over it and was determined to run
Apple in the Ground. He almost succeeded, several times. But lately
Apple has gained a bigger hold on the Market.
But the reality now is that The MacBU knew full well years in advance
that the VBA system would eventually break and made no effort to convert
over to applescript.
Of course many of us (like myself) has never used VBA, and have had
macros turned off due to virus concerns since Word and and Excel95. So I
don't miss it. I even asked what solver is and does, was pointed to a
website and read it. I still scratch my head trying to figure out the
benefits.
Each time a situation comes up like this where college students can't
use certain features because of the platform used; I ca visualize Mr.
Gates developing a smirk and a gleam in his eye.
Despite, the current deficiencies, Office2008 is still a Great product.
IF you'll voice your concerns on feedback page Maybe if enough
complaints are lodge an alternative will be added.
Gary wrote:
> This is just an example of Microsoft treating its MAC users as a second
> class user. Personally, i believe that Office for Mac and Office for
> Windows should in as much as possible be the same with similar features
> and compatibility.
>
> For example, at the college that I work at the students in the Honors
> program receive Macs but then can not use Access as might be required
> for one of their classes.
>
> I think that they should have taken the time and care to include
> compatible scripting or translators for automatic tasks that would work
> on both platforms. I.E. Excel's Solver
>
> There should be more direct crossover of features and they should be but
> one Office Website on Microsoft with shared resources and templates.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |pjones@kimbanet.com, ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This particular PITA is simply an outrageously DUMB screw-up by someone at
Microsoft.
Normal service will be resumed, as soon as a few people get back from
holidays and get their buts kicked.
There will be one or two people working standing up for a week or so over
this one
Cheers
On 23/01/08 6:22 AM, in article ee88e7a.9@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Gary" wrote:
> This is just an example of Microsoft treating its MAC users as a second class
> user. Personally, i believe that Office for Mac and Office for Windows should
> in as much as possible be the same with simular features and compatibility.
>
> For example, at the college that I work at the students in the Honors program
> receive Macs but then can not use Access as might be required for one of their
> classes.
>
> I think that they should have taken the time and care to include compatible
> scripting or translators for automatic tasks that would work on both
> platforms. I.E. Excel's Solver
>
> There should be more direct crossover of features and they should be but one
> Office Website on Microsoft with shared resources and templates.
Please don't tack your questions onto someone else's thread. There's too
great a chance that we will miss the new question!
The answer to this question (which is noting to do with Download
Templates...) is:
* You cannot "save as" from .dot to .doc. A Template file has a different
internal file structure. It's like an apple vs an orange: different thing
inside.
What you need to do is "create" a document "from" a template.
To do this, in Word 2008, simply double-click the .dot file. Word will open
and there will be a document on the screen, save that under a different
name.
If you are not using Word 2008, come back and tell us what you are using:
the answers are different
Cheers
On 25/02/08 7:47 AM, in article ee88e7a.17@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Marc" wrote:
> How to save a Word template (.dot) into Word Ducument (.doc)?
>
> Many Thanks!
Why is it that for something we pay good money for and that they offer many free functionalities (eg templates), Mac users can't get access to them? This is ridiculous.
On a side note, I can't figure out why in Windows you can click a simple button from the the File>New window to view templates on the web. In Office 2008 for Mac, I can't find that functionality, yet its the only way you can download templates for Office 2007 because of Microsoft's stupid thought process on how they design their websites. I don't think that would be difficult to at least build some way to get to a Mac template page.
But then again... they've never been user friendly, why would they change.
Well... Mac Users will have a selection of templates created just for them.
You are correct: there will be a "Mac Only" templates page, with templates
that have been checked to make sure they will work on Mac Office.
As Mac users, we CAN get access to all of the templates on the general
office site, EXCEPT the templates designed for Office 2007 products.
There are two reasons for this: The first is that Microsoft was sick of
supplying templates to people who have not paid for Office 2007. Microsoft
has to pay outside developers to create these templates, and it pays a
licence fee per download. Microsoft's shareholders (your pension fund!) got
a bit fed up with funding the deficiencies of all the other word-processors
out there If they think they have a great word-processor, let them
supply their own templates to their customers
The second is that some of them won't work in Mac:Office. Some of those
templates rely on VBA, a feature that we don't have in 2008.
The people who put a lock on the Office Templates front gate 'expected' that
users of Mac Office 2008 would be able to get the templates in the same way
as PC Office users can. It came as a bit of a shock to them when they
discovered that they had locked us out. They are now discussing building a
mechanism that will allow users of Mac Office 2008 into the site.
This is not as simple as it sounds: the mechanism has to not only check that
the Mac user has Office 2008, it also has to select out the templates that
won't work in Mac Office (e.g. The ones that rely on VBA).
Not so much a conspiracy as an unanticipated side-effect
Adding the Mactopia templates to the Project Gallery is a good idea. Expect
to see that one implemented as soon as they get around to it. Right now, I
guess the developers are just a tad busy squashing bugs...
In the meantime, if you find a Microsoft template you want that you can't
get, post in here and we will see if we can get it for you. Note: We'll
need the exact URL, none of us have time to go "looking" for templates for
people who can't be bothered to find their own
Hint: Look for the "Community Submitted" templates. They are much more
likely to have real-world coding in them
Cheers
On 27/02/08 1:25 PM, in article ee88e7a.20@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "natc" wrote:
> Why is it that for something we pay good money for and that they offer many
> free functionalities (eg templates), Mac users can't get access to them? This
> is ridiculous.
>
> On a side note, I can't figure out why in Windows you can click a simple
> button from the the File>New window to view templates on the web. In Office
> 2008 for Mac, I can't find that functionality, yet its the only way you can
> download templates for Office 2007 because of Microsoft's stupid thought
> process on how they design their websites. I don't think that would be
> difficult to at least build some way to get to a Mac template page.
>
> But then again... they've never been user friendly, why would they change.
I would like to get this template if possible. I am new to MAC and never liked computers until I purchased a MAC. I have no computer skills! I am using Office '08 for Mac.
WTF!!!! So i try to download a template on my Windows system, and i can;t because the MS f&*kheads now restrict windows templates to specific Win Office versions!!!! WTF!!!! even though i am licensed for windows office 2003, i can't download a windows template because i don;t have Win Office 2007 !!!1 f*&k you microsoft!!!
Let me see now, you would be aged about 12 or 13? Right... So we have a way
to go before you discover that one exclamation point is sufficient
Microsoft Office 2008 complains about "ActiveX" because it does not contain
a compiler for it. If you had searched before posting you would have found
lengthy explanations of why that is so in here.
Word 2007 templates are restricted to versions 2007 and later because the
earlier applications cannot open the file forms in use.
Which you would also have discovered if you had searched in here.
On 22/3/08 8:03 AM, in article ee88e7a.33@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"not-bill-gates" wrote:
> WTF!!!! So i try to download a template on my Windows system, and i can;t
> because the MS f&*kheads now restrict windows templates to specific Win Office
> versions!!!! WTF!!!! even though i am licensed for windows office 2003, i
> can't download a windows template because i don;t have Win Office 2007 !!!1
> f*&k you microsoft!!!
Where is the "My Templates" folder in Office 2008? I wan tto move some .dot files into it so they will appear under the My Templates choice in the Project Gallery. I believe I've thoroughly examined the Microsoft Office 2008 folder and I don't see it, I've tried the Help function and it did not reveal this.
Moved to [username]/Library/Application Support/Microsoft/Office/User
Templates/My Templates
In the future, when you have a new question, please start a new thread
instead of adding onto an old one.
randyvt wrote:
> Where is the "My Templates" folder in Office 2008? I wan tto move some .dot files into it so they will appear under the My Templates choice in the Project Gallery. I believe I've thoroughly examined the Microsoft Office 2008 folder and I don't see it, I've tried the Help function and it did not reveal this.
>
I am NEW at MAC. I had a family project of making a birthday calendar in PC that required a calendar obviously and I had found several for free on the internet, from Word Microsoft.
I am trying to adapt from my PC to MAC, (so far so good, ) BUT need to find a template of a calendar for 2009 or any year for that matter to pursue my project. It was SO EASY in Word Microsoft.
I've looked in mactopia..... there is every possible template, BUT no calendar template there. I've tried with Netscape.... no possibility of making home calendars for MAC.
HELP! HELP! HELP! :
I will have to see if I can persuade Daiya to put it on the Word:Mac website
Cheers
On 2/04/08 11:32 AM, in article ee88e7a.37@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Lucie
Champs" wrote:
> I am NEW at MAC. I had a family project of making a birthday calendar in PC
> that required a calendar obviously and I had found several for free on the
> internet, from Word Microsoft.
> I am trying to adapt from my PC to MAC, (so far so good, ) BUT need to find a
> template of a calendar for 2009 or any year for that matter to pursue my
> project. It was SO EASY in Word Microsoft.
> I've looked in mactopia..... there is every possible template, BUT no calendar
> template there. I've tried with Netscape.... no possibility of making home
> calendars for MAC.
> HELP! HELP! HELP! :
You can use *most* of the same templates on the MS site on a Mac. When you
attempt to download one you will get a notification if it requires ActiveX,
which isn't supported on the Mac - those you definitely can't use or even
download. The calendar templates are here:
Most of the others others probably will refuse to download *automatically*
but there is a Manual Download button which will provide a file with a .cab
extension . You'll then need to unzip that file to use the template.
Complete directions are here:
On 4/1/08 10:02 PM, in article ee88e7a.37@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "Lucie
Champs" wrote:
> I am NEW at MAC. I had a family project of making a birthday calendar in PC
> that required a calendar obviously and I had found several for free on the
> internet, from Word Microsoft.
> I am trying to adapt from my PC to MAC, (so far so good, ) BUT need to find a
> template of a calendar for 2009 or any year for that matter to pursue my
> project. It was SO EASY in Word Microsoft.
> I've looked in mactopia..... there is every possible template, BUT no calendar
> template there. I've tried with Netscape.... no possibility of making home
> calendars for MAC.
> HELP! HELP! HELP! :
Aloha, All in This Thread -- At Least To Any of You Still Following It
To those who may believe they either haven't used or found no benefit from VBA or macros, I'm both happy for you, and a bit surprised. For template downloaders, more surprised than happy. If I was a gambler, odds would be very good that any Office for Mac user (pre-Office 2008 for Mac) who downloaded templates on fair amount of frequency, particularly Word or Excel, more than likely downloaded templates that contained some work in VBA.
That said, for anyone using Excel 2008, in particular, the days of simple and smooth integration between Office for Windows and Office for Mac are over without VBA & macros.
Why?
Because whether it's macro-based templates or spreadsheet files from Office for Windows (Excel), or Word and PowerPoint files linked to such files, to use them in or with Excel 2008 would require re-coding the macros in AppleScript.
That's no trivial undertaking, making it more efficient for the vast majority of cross-platform users to just stick with Excel 2004 (Mac). To do such re-coding would take even an AppleScript "wizard" a great deal of time and effort, which might be okay for anyone that gets off on masochistic pain & suffering. (See MacWorld April 2008, review of MS Office 2008, pp. 38-45; especially, pp. 40 & 41 (Excel 2008).)
Anyway, for a long-time user of Macs, my first was a MacSE in 1987, and MS Office (Mac and Windows), this transition is going to be tough going for a while. For Mac newcomers, you may want to look into a couple of additional info/reference resources:
2. Apple Discussion Forum - http://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa (on the Forum frontpage, in lower left column, see topics under "Windows Compatible Technology"
How can I set a default file so that Word Mac 2008 will open the way I want each time I launch it? Are there some easy-to-understand instructions anywhere? I would like to set font, tabs, spacing, magnification, window size, and window location. With nearly EVERY other Mac application, this is an easy, 1-2-3 process, and usually the last window size and location equals the next window size and location.
With Windows, just find your "Normal.dot" file, edit it the way you want, and Save. And last window size and location, as with most Mac applications, means next window size and location as well.
Is there any reason why Microsoft won't do the same for the Mac, when nearly every other Mac developer does? What I want to do with Word Mac 2008 is either impossible or EXTREMELY difficult. And if it's possible, why is it SO hard to learn?
It's hard to learn because the Word Help is not finished yet. We are
'encouraging' them to improve it.
Generically, the process is exactly the same as on Windows: set your
Normal.dotm the way you want to see new documents, and that's what you will
get, each time.
Microsoft actually intends it to work just this way. There is a bug in the
mechanism currently that fails to save the view positions correctly, and
another in the operating system affecting some users.
Since you didn't specify your version information, I can't tell whether
yours is one of the systems affected.
We're waiting on fixes to both bugs.
On 14/04/08 8:40 AM, in article ee88e7a.41@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"DeltaNick" wrote:
> How can I set a default file so that Word Mac 2008 will open the way I want
> each time I launch it? Are there some easy-to-understand instructions
> anywhere? I would like to set font, tabs, spacing, magnification, window size,
> and window location. With nearly EVERY other Mac application, this is an easy,
> 1-2-3 process, and usually the last window size and location equals the next
> window size and location.
>
> With Windows, just find your "Normal.dot" file, edit it the way you want, and
> Save. And last window size and location, as with most Mac applications, means
> next window size and location as well.
>
> Is there any reason why Microsoft won't do the same for the Mac, when nearly
> every other Mac developer does? What I want to do with Word Mac 2008 is either
> impossible or EXTREMELY difficult. And if it's possible, why is it SO hard to
> learn?
>> It's hard to learn because the Word Help is not finished yet. We are 'encouraging' them to improve it ... Generically, the process is exactly the same as on Windows: set your Normal.dotm the way you want to see new documents, and that's what you will get, each time ... Microsoft actually intends it to work just this way. There is a bug in the mechanism currently that fails to save the view positions correctly, and another in the operating system affecting some users ... Since you didn't specify your version information, I can't tell whether yours is one of the systems affected ... We're waiting on fixes to both bugs. <<
John,
Thank you. I am using Tiger version 10.4.11, I have Leopard, but have not yet installed it, hoping for OS "fluctuation" to settle first. When I loaded Office, I updated it, so I'm at version 12.0.1.
Can I set another format as the Global "Normal"? Does it have to be "Normal.dotm"? What if I want to use another of the available formats (.dot, .xml, etc.) as the Global Normal file?
Is there a way to set the blinking, on-screen cursor back to black (mine is blue)?
OK, you have the "View Settings don't persist" but, and Microsoft is working
on that one. You do not have the other one, which is to do with Spaces.
Yes, Normal.dotm must be in XML, and it must be a .dotm. A .dotm is an XML
template in which customisations are permitted. .dotx is the same thing
with customisations disabled (intended, on the Windows side, to prevent a
file getting any macros in it.)
You can't change the file type of Normal: if you do, Word can't use it. You
can have as many other templates as you like, but Normal.dotm sets many of
the start-up settings for Word.
I am wondering if any bad vibes have been inherited from an earlier version.
Have you ever had an earlier version on that machine?
Do a search for any other instances of Normal an drag them to the desktop.
Then quit Word, find Normal.dotm, and drag it up there too. Re-start Word
and allow it to create a new Normal, and let's see what happens. It is
possible for Normal to corrupt, a nd when it does, some settings can turn
themselves read-only.
I have no idea what the cursor problem is: that's not being done by Word,
which has no choice in cursor colours. What haxies are you running?
Cheers
On 15/04/08 3:02 AM, in article ee88e7a.43@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"DeltaNick" wrote:
>>> It's hard to learn because the Word Help is not finished yet. We are
>>> 'encouraging' them to improve it ... Generically, the process is exactly the
>>> same as on Windows: set your Normal.dotm the way you want to see new
>>> documents, and that's what you will get, each time ... Microsoft actually
>>> intends it to work just this way. There is a bug in the mechanism currently
>>> that fails to save the view positions correctly, and another in the
>>> operating system affecting some users ... Since you didn't specify your
>>> version information, I can't tell whether yours is one of the systems
>>> affected ... We're waiting on fixes to both bugs. <<
>
> John,
>
> Thank you. I am using Tiger version 10.4.11, I have Leopard, but have not yet
> installed it, hoping for OS "fluctuation" to settle first. When I loaded
> Office, I updated it, so I'm at version 12.0.1.
>
> Can I set another format as the Global "Normal"? Does it have to be
> "Normal.dotm"? What if I want to use another of the available formats (.dot,
> .xml, etc.) as the Global Normal file?
>
> Is there a way to set the blinking, on-screen cursor back to black (mine is
> blue)?
>
> DeltaNick
Let me see if I understand you… I'm a bit confused. I cannot have the old Word format -- .doc -- as my Global Normal? Is .dotm the new Microsoft format that nobody wants to use, and Microsoft is trying to force on everyone? Or is it simply .doc with macros? I just want all my files to open in the old .doc format.
Yes, I had Microsoft Office: Mac 2004 until it was removed by the 2008 installer. I used a workaround to load Normal the way I wanted: I placed a Normal.doc file in my dock and double-clicked on that -- rather than on the Word icon -- and was able to open a Word file the way I liked each time, including proper dimensions and locations (top touched the menu bar, bottom touched the dock. But double-clicking on the Word icon did what Word 2008 does now. How can this be a bug, when virtually ALL other Mac developers allow it? The Windows default is .dot. It seems that .dot and .doc are different on Mac and Windows. What is the difference, and what exactly is .dotm? The .dot format is required to open .doc files on Windows. Again, I'm confused. The old WriteNow, Pages, Nisus are all easy for the setting of defaults. This is more of what I'd expect from Rube Goldberg.
And I tried the new Normal.dotm and the old Normals that were saved in a separate folder (I also kept a copy of the old Normal in an unrelated folder, so I could call it up if and when I wanted).
I will have to try dragging all my Normal files to the desktop to see what happens when Word builds a new Normal.dotm.
I never had a cursor problem with Word 2004. The blinking insertion point on the page is now blue, rather than black, but it was black with Word 2004. To my knowledge, I have no haxies loaded, but when I bought and loaded Audio Hijack Pro, it automatically downloaded Unsanity, which I eventually learned was a haxie and removed. But it was on my Mac for a few months, although I don’t think it ever caused any problems. I removed it as soon as I learned, but that was before I ever loaded Office:Mac 2008. The blue insertion point BEGAN with Office 2008, which I just loaded this past weekend.
> Let me see if I understand youŠ I'm a bit confused. I cannot have the old Word
> format -- .doc -- as my Global Normal?
That's correct. The old format can not store all the settings Word 2008
needs.
> Is .dotm the new Microsoft format that
> nobody wants to use, and Microsoft is trying to force on everyone?
It's compressed XML. I do not know why "anyone" would not want to use it.
It is one quarter the size of the old format, and much, much more rugged.
It can also contain hundreds of properties that the old .doc format cannot.
> Or is it simply .doc with macros?
It is macro-enabled, that's correct. However, it won't have any macros in
it in 2008. If you put macros in it, they will stay there, silently
ignored.
> I just want all my files to open in the old .doc format.
There must be a reason for that, but I am a bit mystified what it could be?
You do not seem to have been told that the old .doc format will not contain
all the items that Word 2008 can create. If you use the new graphics
functionality, that will all be downgraded when you save as .doc. After
that, it can't be edited properly, on either Mac or PC.
> Yes, I had Microsoft Office: Mac 2004 until it was removed by the 2008
> installer. I used a workaround to load Normal the way I wanted: I placed a
> Normal.doc file in my dock and double-clicked on that -- rather than on the
> Word icon -- and was able to open a Word file the way I liked each time,
> including proper dimensions and locations (top touched the menu bar, bottom
> touched the dock.
Eeeewwww.... That's ugly! You are starting Word off with half the document
object model missing. No wonder you're having an interesting time
> But double-clicking on the Word icon did what Word 2008 does
> now. How can this be a bug, when virtually ALL other Mac developers allow it?
I am not sure what you are talking about. Your View settings should be
written back to your preferences and your Normal.dotm when you quit Word.
There's a bug that is causing some of them not to be written. That's one
they are working on.
> The Windows default is .dot.
No: .dotm, same as Word 2008. That's *why* Word 2008 has a .dotm, even
though it doesn't have macros. The .dotm is "macro-enabled" which means it
will store customisations such as toolbars and keystrokes, which would
otherwise be disabled.
The other template format is .dotx. That's similar to the Mac's Stationery
file: it disables "active" content, so it can be safely used from
"untrusted" locations.
> It seems that .dot and .doc are different on Mac and Windows.
No: They are byte-for-byte exactly the same, internally. On the Mac, they
have a resource fork (which is basically unused and not present on the
Windows version). But otherwise, they are exactly the same thing in binary.
> What exactly is .dotm?
All three formats are ISO-standard XML, stored in a base-64 (Zipped)
container. If you change the file extension of one of them to ".zip" you
can open them and have a look. Inside you will find a little "website", all
strung together with a "Rels" file that shows Word which components exist
and what their names are. Do this on a "copy". Once you have unzipped it,
unless you have special tools you can't put it back together again.
The .docx format is the Word 12 format. No longer binary, it is now
eXtensible Markup Language encoded in Unicode. If you have a look, you will
see that it's a complex collection of nested containers within containers
that contain all the objects that make up a Word document.
Many of the problems with Word document corruption are due to the fact that
the original binary format was overloaded with so many new bits that it
became very unstable. Internally, the entire thing was held together by
offsets: binary numbers that indicated how many bits from the front of the
file each component was stored. Those offsets used to get corrupted,
rendering the entire file unreadable. XML fixes that: no offsets any more,
if an error occurs in the file, Word can simply ignore that bit and continue
to read the file. Since it's ANSI Unicode, it can be compressed by 70 per
cent. And since it's "extensible" the format can now contain anything you
care to write in there, including all the new stuff that's coming in later
versions of Word.
The .dotx format is the same coding language, but it has a different
internal structure, with added containers for themes and customisations such
as toolbars.
The .dotm format is the same internal structure as the .dotx, but has two
new containers added to enable the storing of active content such as macros.
> The .dot format is required to open .doc files on Windows.
Who told you that? It's not true. A Word document makes no further
reference to the .dot file after it is created. From then on, everything is
contained in the .doc file. The .dot is not even needed for document
creation. Windows Word can create a file using its internal defaults
without the .dot even being present.
However: Normal.dot is a special case: it is used as a repository to store
user customisations, such as styles and autotexts. It's the user's personal
bucket, into which Word saves user changes to the Word environment.
> Again, I'm confused. The old
> WriteNow, Pages, Nisus are all easy for the setting of defaults. This is more
> of what I'd expect from Rube Goldberg.
Word is a far more powerful application than those ones. It is capable of
creating documents with massively greater complexity. So it has a large
number of default settings that those simpler applications neither have nor
need. If you compare the dashboard of your car to the cockpit of a 747, you
may notice one or two extra features, also.
Your car won't cross oceans at close to the speed of sound, and probably
doesn't need four sets of engine controls There are many simpler "text"
applications than Word out there. If your needs are very basic, that's what
you should be using. If you occasionally need to take on documents > 1,000
pages with hundreds of graphics and exacting style specifications, Word is
the weapon of choice
> And I tried the new Normal.dotm and the old Normals that were saved in a
> separate folder (I also kept a copy of the old Normal in an unrelated folder,
> so I could call it up if and when I wanted).
I am not sure what you meant by "try". A Normal template contains several
thousand settings. More in a .dotm. The settings from one version of Word
are not appropriate for a different version. In some cases the settings
conflict, and will cause crashes, freezes and hangs. If you mix and match
templates like that, you are asking for trouble, and trust me, you WILL get
it
> I will have to try dragging all my Normal files to the desktop to see what
> happens when Word builds a new Normal.dotm.
That's worth doing at the first sign of trouble. You lose many of your
customisations when you do that, so it's a good idea to keep your Normal
carefully backed up.
> I never had a cursor problem with Word 2004. The blinking insertion point on
> the page is now blue, rather than black, but it was black with Word 2004. To
> my knowledge, I have no haxies loaded, but when I bought and loaded Audio
> Hijack Pro, it automatically downloaded Unsanity, which I eventually learned
> was a haxie and removed. But it was on my Mac for a few months, although I
> don¹t think it ever caused any problems. I removed it as soon as I learned,
> but that was before I ever loaded Office:Mac 2008. The blue insertion point
> BEGAN with Office 2008, which I just loaded this past weekend.
Yeah. That interests me. Nothing in Office 2008 has the ability to change
the cursor colour. Office 2008 is a surprisingly well-behaved OS X citizen,
it uses the Apple OS X components for a great deal of what you see,
including using the Apple cursors.
The main reason I got MS Office is so that I could stay compatible with my workplace and my friends. Nobody at my workplace and none of my friends uses .docx, nor has the slightest desire to go through ANOTHER round of Microsoft "upgrades." The docx. format may have the advantages you state, but Microsoft has cried "Wolf!" way too many times before, with totally unnecessary and bloated updates. Nobody is listening any more, and nobody trusts Microsoft. Vista is merely another reason not to trust Microsoft any more, following the Windows Genuine Advantage fiasco. Until others start using the .docx format, I would prefer to use something MUCH simpler, and much less bloated. Most people simply want to write a letter, or do a term paper for a college (university) course. Most other word processors can do that MUCH more simply.
I work at one of Microsoft's largest customers, although it's a Windows environment. They REFUSE to update to Vista and have not switched to Office 2007. Too many of us complained about the totally unnecessary changes in Office 2003. An example: one of Microsoft Word 2003’s defaults needed to be turned off. However, it took me WEEKS to learn that it had to be turned off in all of three different locations for it to stop working. There was nothing in the documentation, absolutely nothing. Another: Microsoft simply moves functions around to make their applications “new” or “updated.” Yes, I know they add legitimately new features, but many features are not legitimately new, but of the “see if you can find it now” variety. People DESPISE this! And fewer and fewer of our SysAdmin and Help Desk people respect the entity known as Microsoft. Nobody at my workplace LIKES Microsoft products, but we are forced to use them. And I’m sure you’ve seen the recently-revealed internal e-mails attesting to Microsoft Senior Executives’ inability to use Vista in their own homes.
So, bottom line: I don’t WANT to use Microsoft Word, I MUST use it. It is painful to use on Windows, and it seems even MORE painful to use on the Mac. And the Mac is supposed to make things simpler, remedy the bloatware known as Windows. So, I hope you understand my predicament. You don’t need to advertise the Genuine Windows Advantage, nor the advantages of Microsoft Office or Microsoft Word. I am only TOO familiar with them: I’ve used Word since the 1980s.
That being stated, I am trying to make Word 2008 work well on my Mac, and it works LESS than what I would consider well. What I consider “well” is when an application does what I want it to do, not when it dictates the terms of my online life. And in general, I find the Mac to be a pleasant platform, unlike Windows. With Windows, I must “fight” the platform, and with Microsoft’s apps, I must “fight” them as well, even on the Mac. Microsoft seems to have a deaf ear when it comes to customer needs and desires.
Now, when discussing Normal formats, I think you referred to Office 2007, but I was referring to Office 2003. Remember, Vista and 2007 are NOT being used at my workplace, nor by anyone I know. And I have SERIOUS doubts whether they ever WILL be used. Such is the distaste for Microsoft at one of its largest customers. In fact, I have NEVER run across .docx until now, and I use Microsoft Word on 5 different computers daily: all legal, 4 of them Windows, and one Mac. So, my main task is to stay compatible with the .doc format, which uses the .dot default -- “Normal.dot” -- format. I’ve never seen Word 2007, and I hope I never do. In fact, I’m not even curious about it.
If you are saying that I must use the .docx format to use Office 2008, but I can send documents saved in the .doc format, I’ll see if it’s a viable solution. I am committed to try and make this work well. Configuring Word for Mac 2004 was painful, but I was able to use the workaround I described in my last e-mail.
And if you think having my Word window open automatically from the dock to the menu bar is ugly, then I will say that it's ugly because it cannot do so. It's a matter of taste, and here, my taste is what matters. I try to use my large Mac screen to its maximum "real estate" capability. Having the top of the Word window open an eighth of an inch from the menu bar is a waste of space: I can't do anything in that one-eighth of an inch! Since I always open at least 3 applications (word processor, e-mail, and browser), I position them the way I like, the way I prefer. And since I use 5 computers daily, I pretty much try to have things set up nearly the same on each for obvious reasons. I am asking your assistance, as an MVP, in getting me there, not as an interior designer. I also would like my documents to open at 120% or 125% size, to visualize my page more pleasantly. The 100% size certainly seems quite a bit smaller than actual size.
All of my toolbar preferences do not hold, only some of them, and I cannot figure out why. I want the toolbars to look balanced from left-to-right, so I’ve tried to put separators (“begin new group”) between all items. Some stay, and some disappear. This is also frustrating. Microsoft Word seems to have a mind of its own, and it doesn’t let me set it the way I want. I install those “begin new group” separators the exact same way, during the same session, but Word picks and chooses what it wants, and I cannot!
And then, there’s my blue cursor insertion point. Upon further examination, I’ve discovered that it’s not ONLY the insertion point, but my paragraph symbols, returns, and tab arrows too (I use “Show all non-printing characters”).
But I have had success in setting the default font, tabs, and margins that I want. Apparently a simple thing, it took me weeks or even months to do so with Word 2004. I simply couldn’t do it, so I developed my workaround: a locked .doc file -- set the way I want -- in my dock. I’ve already tried this with Word 2008, but it doesn’t work.
I’m one who usually reads how to set default files and formats. It works with EVERY Mac application I’ve ever done it with, except two: Word 2004 and Word 2008 (I haven’t even tried with Excel and PowerPoint, which I use less often).
I will try to work on this, and I could certainly use your advice, and I thank you for taking this on. But please realize that issues such as this are what turns people off to anything Microsoft. Word may be the world’s most capable word processor, but at what price?
I wish Microsoft would truly understand this. Vista seems to be evidence that they haven’t a clue.
So, here’s my list of what I CANNOT do with Word:
1. Cannot set default position/location on-screen: will not open a document fully to the menu bar (and same at bottom), unless I drag it there each time.
2. Will not hold “Print Layout” view within the Window. I must reposition it each time. When I set it at 125% and open a new document, it is NOT centered, and some of the page is out-of-view. If I want it evenly centered, where equal amounts of margin (and beyond) are displayed each time I open a new file, what am I to do? Again, Word seems to do what IT wants to do, not what I want it to do.
3. Will not hold all my toolbar and “begin new group” separator settings, only some of them.
4. Blue, blinking insertion point, paragraph symbols, returns, and tab arrows when using “Show all non-printing characters”: I would like them black, as in previous versions.
5. When I turn “Show all non-printing characters” off, they don’t disappear.
There may be a few others that I cannot think of, but these are my initial major complaints, right now.
And another complaint: now that Word is “native” with my Intel Mac, it takes MUCH longer to launch or open. I was expecting a “faster” application. It certainly seems slower. And Nisus takes fewer than 3 seconds!
First, I sympathize and empathize with much of what you've written, DN. In fact, I'm grateful for the five (5) issues/questions you've posted, and hopeful someone out there knows how to resolve them -- for me, 1 and 3, in particular are especially aggravating.
As in an earlier post, the lack of macros functionality (and absence of VBA) in Office 2008 for Mac will continue to cause issues for any user wanting to use templates and files that contain macros or VBA from other versions Office. As I'd alluded to, and John McGhie more explicitly highlighted, those components of a non-2008 file/template that depend on macros/VBA are "ignored" in Office 2008.
Moreover, it's actually not cross-platform issue in the typical sense of that term, except to the extent only Office 2008 for Mac is affected. Why? Because whether the non-2008 file/template that contains macros or VBA enhancements came from Office (2004, etc.) for Mac, or Office for Windows (2003, 2007, etc.), these elements of the file/template are simply not in Office 2008 for Mac's "lexicon", so to speak. In other words, it's a serious issue, specific to Office 2008 for Mac.
In my earlier post on this, I offered a reference to MacWorld's review of Office 2008. It's a good review and their website/forum may be a place to find additional info related to your list of five issues.
That said, I was surprised (more like aghast) that another review of Office 2008 by the Mac-focused publication "Mac|Life" (formerly, "MacAddict") did not even mention one word of Office 2008's "No-macros/VBA" problem! Not sure if that's due to Microsoft's quietness, or just due to that publication's general decline in technical depth since its name-change and makeover.
Aloha, and best of luck. If you find the answers to your list, please post them here.
That was my assessment of the others at my workplace. I know the SysAdmin and speak to him about our software often. He's told me there are no plans for us to install Vista, nor Office 2007 ... and why.
As I wrote above, "I could certainly use your advice, and I thank you for taking this on." I am LOOKING for a considered response. I was also trying to impart to you the extreme frustration Microsoft's products bring, keeping in mind that they charge LOTS of money for their software. One would expect a bit more "Customer Service." I know that you and the other MVPs are volunteers, and not Microsoft employees.
I visited my local Apple store yesterday, and experimented a bit with Office 2008 on several of the Macs: all of them had the blue, blinking insertion point, paragraph symbols, return symbols, and tab arrow symbols when using "Show all non-printing characters." So this, apparently, is the way it's supposed to be, a bit of a surprise. And all, of course, would not hold the last position on screen, but opened with that 1/16- or 1/8-inch gap from Apple's menu bar, what I consider to be wasted space.
So, please try to understand the dissatisfaction on my part and from others, even in this blog. We are all trying to "right" what we think are "wrongs" committed by Microsoft, and are requesting MVP assistance. Some things seem to make absolutely no sense at all. Since the software is expensive, we feel further aggrieved. We may vent, but it's not directed at the MVPs, who are trying to provide that service we believe we deserve ... voluntarily. We thank you for all you do.
OK, I understand that you have issues with Microsoft Software. What I don't
understand is why you don't choose to tell all of this to Microsoft?
I really have no interest in hearing YOUR complaints about Word 2008,
because I have my own. And of course, I think that mine are so much more
important than everyone else's
I have my own list of things I would rather they changed. And believe me,
they know about it. I have taken great glee in sending all my comments to
Microsoft. Then I spent last week in the USA, beating them up in person
But this is not the place for those comments: Microsoft is not reading in
here. They set this up as a forum in which fellow users can help each other
out. You can use Help>Send Feedback in any Office 2008 application to send
your comments directly to Microsoft. I was talking to the lady who reads
and analyses it all.
My purpose in here is to help users to "use" this software, the way they
made it. That means using the product the way they built it.
Each of the products you mention has a purpose. Each of them is designed
for a different market.
Word 2007 is the most powerful and the fastest. It's the one I use by
preference if I can. Yes, I spent at least two months swearing at the new
user interface before I learned my way around it. Now, I get frustrated
when I don't have it: the Mac interface is very slow and fiddly in
comparison. I also run mainly in the new file format, because it is a
quarter the size and very much more rugged.
Word 2003 is a good solid job, but it's not as good: not as fast, not as
stable, and it doesn't do as well with the new file format. I also find the
old-style UI a bit clunky.
Word 2004 is my choice on the Mac. Slow, and limited, but it's the best
there is on the Mac.
Word 2008 is a work in progress. That work will have to progress quite a
lot further before I can use it. But other people find it very suitable to
their needs.
There are even people to whom I would recommend Vista Yes, it's slow
and bloated and it nags you to death. But it's much more secure and robust
than its predecessor, and much more able to defend itself against the
assaults of under-skilled users. I recommend it to all the "family and
friends" who are likely to blow up their computers and then ring me up late
at night to get them going again. Since installing Vista in several of the
trouble spots in my circle of friends, I sleep much better at night these
days
I also use Vista here on this MacBook. Again, its ruggedness means it
survives better in a virtual machine (Parallels) than Windows XP does.
My OS of choice is Windows 2008 (which just came out). That's the Server
version of Vista, with most of the eye-candy and bloat removed. It makes a
damn fine workstation OS if you have at least 4 GB of RAM
Cheers
On 21/04/08 7:36 PM, in article ee88e7a.51@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"DeltaNick" wrote:
> John,
>
> That was my assessment of the others at my workplace. I know the SysAdmin and
> speak to him about our software often. He's told me there are no plans for us
> to install Vista, nor Office 2007 ... and why.
>
> As I wrote above, "I could certainly use your advice, and I thank you for
> taking this on." I am LOOKING for a considered response. I was also trying to
> impart to you the extreme frustration Microsoft's products bring, keeping in
> mind that they charge LOTS of money for their software. One would expect a bit
> more "Customer Service." I know that you and the other MVPs are volunteers,
> and not Microsoft employees.
>
> I visited my local Apple store yesterday, and experimented a bit with Office
> 2008 on several of the Macs: all of them had the blue, blinking insertion
> point, paragraph symbols, return symbols, and tab arrow symbols when using
> "Show all non-printing characters." So this, apparently, is the way it's
> supposed to be, a bit of a surprise. And all, of course, would not hold the
> last position on screen, but opened with that 1/16- or 1/8-inch gap from
> Apple's menu bar, what I consider to be wasted space.
>
> So, please try to understand the dissatisfaction on my part and from others,
> even in this blog. We are all trying to "right" what we think are "wrongs"
> committed by Microsoft, and are requesting MVP assistance. Some things seem to
> make absolutely no sense at all. Since the software is expensive, we feel
> further aggrieved. We may vent, but it's not directed at the MVPs, who are
> trying to provide that service we believe we deserve ... voluntarily. We thank
> you for all you do.
>
> Nick
>> OK, I understand that you have issues with Microsoft Software. What I don't understand is why you don't choose to tell all of this to Microsoft? <<
>> You can use Help>Send Feedback in any Office 2008 application to send your comments directly to Microsoft. <<
Thanks. I will do that. But first, I thought I'd shake out all the problems at the lowest, user level. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. Maybe there's something I've missed, and as you've explained, there are some bugs that are possibly being repaired. So far, you've provided me with several EXCELLENT responses. Thank you! I didn't understand the part about the new format being more compact and more comprehensive (press reports spotlighted Microsoft's "heavy-handed arm twisting" in global forums, but not much else). I didn't understand fully about the formats. Although I still don't FULLY understand, I do understand MORE now than before.
Returning to my list …
1. Cannot set default position/location on-screen: will not open a document fully to the menu bar (and same at bottom), unless I drag it there each time.
NOT SOLVED.
2. Will not hold “Print Layout” view within the Window. I must reposition it each time. When I set it at 125% and open a new document, it is NOT centered, and some of the page is out-of-view. If I want it evenly centered, where equal amounts of margin (and beyond) are displayed each time I open a new file, what am I to do? Again, Word seems to do what IT wants to do, not what I want it to do.
SOLVED: I figured this out on my own.
3. Will not hold all my toolbar and “begin new group” separator settings, only some of them.
SOLVED: Although extremely difficult to do, I was finally able to set my toolbars they way I want. Microsoft shouldn’t make this process so painful, but …
4. Blue, blinking insertion point, paragraph symbols, returns, and tab arrows when using “Show all non-printing characters”: I would like them black, as in previous versions.
SOLVED: All these characters are supposed to be blue in Office 2008. It's the way they appear on all the Macs at my local Apple Store.
5. When I turn “Show all non-printing characters” off, they don’t disappear.
NOT SOLVED.
So, as you see, I have only two remaining “problems”:
1. >> Your View settings should be written back to your preferences and your Normal.dotm when you quit Word. There’s a bug that is causing some of them not to be written. That’s one they are working on. <<
2. When I turn “Show all non-printing characters” off, they don’t disappear.
On 29/04/08 9:39 AM, in article ee88e7a.53@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"DeltaNick" wrote:
> Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
In most cases, I don't think you are. There are a LOT of bugs in Word 2008.
> 1. Cannot set default position/location on-screen: will not open a document
> fully to the menu bar (and same at bottom), unless I drag it there each time.
>
> NOT SOLVED.
Bug. Wait for the service pack.
> 3. Will not hold all my toolbar and ³begin new group² separator settings, only
> some of them.
>
> SOLVED: Although extremely difficult to do, I was finally able to set my
> toolbars they way I want. Microsoft shouldn¹t make this process so painful,
> but Š
This "may" have been user error
> 2. When I turn ³Show all non-printing characters² off, they don¹t disappear.
Just check your settings in Word>Preferences>View, in the Non-printing
characters section. Show/Hide toggles the setting of "All".
If any of the other settings are ON, Show/Hide will not toggle them, they
will remain on.
So with Show/Hide ON, All should be the only one ticked, and with Show/Hide
OFF, none should be ticked.
The computer press can be a bit of a worry. Like anything else,
commercialisation and cost-cutting have taken their toll. These days, a
large proportion of the content you read about Microsoft products is
actually written by Microsoft's Marketing Department.
That's because the printed media are saving costs by having their magazines
printed in China. So their deadline occurs two or three months before
on-sale date, to give the ship time to get back to the USA with the copies.
This means that a large percentage of the printed publications do not test
the products AT ALL, and those that do give their reviewers THREE DAYS to
install, learn, test, and write a report on the software.
It's not going to be a very searching test I was offered such a
contract once (because I used to be a journalist). When I discovered that I
would have three days to file if I wanted to get paid, I declined. I can't
afford to have my name on that kind of article
The online sources save costs by having very few journalists (some sites
have "none"). So they are easily sucked in by the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty
and Doubt) spread by Microsoft's competitors.
The Open-Source movement and the ABM (Anyone But Microsoft) camp are
particularly poisonous about the ISO Standard Office XML format currently
used by Microsoft.
That's because they hoped their competing standard would be adopted instead.
In turn, because their applications are not powerful enough to handle all
the things that can exist in an OXML file. Neither is Mac Word 2008, but
that point seems to have been lost in translation.
What they really do not seem to want us to inspect too closely is that their
competing ODF (Open Document Format) seems to have rather missed the point
of being in XML.
There are two "kinds" of Markup Language out there. The "SGML
Applications", of which OXML is one, and the "HTML-like" applications, of
which ODF is one. The difference is that in an SGML document, you can store
anything you like, provided you define how to handle it in the Document Type
Definition (DTD) and the Formatting Output Specification Instance (FOSI).
In ODF, you have a fixed syntax, like HTML, in which the legal objects are
pre-defined. ODF-based applications lack the ability to accept new objects.
You could theoretically extend ODF, but if you did, the ODF applications
couldn't handle the content.
Note to the purists amongst us: Neither of those statements above is 100
per cent accurate. If you insist on a complete and accurate description,
download all 6,000 pages of the OXML specification.
The DTD specifies what is legal in the document. The FOSI specifies how the
receiving application should handle each kind of content. In XML, the DTD
and the FOSI can be combined into an XSLT (XML Style Sheet and Transform).
The XSLT can, in turn, be "implied" (built-in to the application so you do
not need to store it in the document). In OXML it is implied, and you can
add your own XSLT to it, or replace it entirely.
One of the more amusing allegations that you will hear is that Microsoft XML
does not "comply" with the XML standard. Only someone who has completely
missed the point of XML could write such an allegation.
XML is a "Syntax", a "Language" if you like. There are two stages to
"compliance": "Well-formed", and "Valid".
Well-formed means that the syntax within the file conforms to XML coding
standards. It's like grammar and spelling in a piece of English text.
Microsoft XML has ALWAYS been "Well-formed". If it weren't, Word would
crash trying to open it (umm... Sometimes, Word 'does' crash trying to open
it, and you can guarantee that the code in that file is NOT well-formed at
the time!).
Valid means that the language within the file complies with the rules
defined in the Document Type Definition. Microsoft has occasionally been a
little careless in that area, but due to bugs, not malevolent intent.
However, in the same way as English Grammar and Spelling makes no comment
about what we may describe with the English language, the XML Standard makes
no comment about what a coder may describe in an XML document. You can put
anything you like in there, provided you observe the rules of the grammar,
and spell and punctuate it properly. And that is the whole POINT of having
XML in the first place. That's what the "X" in XML stands for:
"eXtensible".
Each new Microsoft XML application (e.g. Word, Excel, PowerPoint...) adds a
few new widgets to the XSLT. Which becomes an extremely inconvenient truth
to those competitors attempting to handle the Microsoft file formats.
While they are very fond of issuing press-releases accusing Microsoft of
failing to follow the rules, they seem to go deathly quiet if you point out
that Apple's Pages seems to have no trouble with the format
Does this mean that Microsoft is purer than the driven snow? Of course not.
But it's no worse than its competitors, and better than many of them.
Software marketing is a contact sport: people get hurt. Some companies need
to understand that crying about it on the Internet, or running off to the
referee when you get hit, will not win the next match!
Do I like this state of affairs? Not much. I remember when the industry
was a kinder, gentler place. I also remember that a word-processor then
cost $15,000 per seat, couldn't handle a file larger than 50 pages, and
wouldn't line things up properly unless you used a font of exactly 10
points.
Here's another problem that I've recently discovered.
Although I keep a Normal.dotm file as default, I need to send a .doc file to my workplace (Windows XP Pro and Office 2003) and to my Windows machine, at home (Windows XP Home and Office 2003), from my Mac. So, I save files in .doc and send.
At home, I receive TWO files, identically named, but of different size. The first is pretty much same size as on the Mac -- say 85KB -- and the second is normally something like 409B. The first opens fine, and is the same document as on the Mac. The second is pure gibberish, and asks whether I want it encoded for Windows, MS-DOS, or other format. Whatever I try, it's gibberish.
At work, I receive only ONE file: the gibberish file.
How can I get a file that I can use? The .docx format is of no use for me in this case, because with XP and Office 2003, I cannot read it. A converter may work at home, but I cannot install any software at work.
This has nothing to do with "Templates". You will get much better service
if you start a new thread for a new question.
You have set your email up to send "AppleDouble" file format. Your home
computer is set up correctly to decode AppleDouble and throw away the
resource fork.
Your work computer is misconfigured and is attempting to process the
resource fork file, which is a binary file that makes no sense except on a
Macintosh.
Change your email to send MIME and all will be well. The resource fork is
unused in Office (and most other Unix-based programs, these days).
Both your home and work computers should be capable of reading and writing
.docx files. If you do not have Windows Update running at home, your
computer should offer to go and get the converter if it doesn't already have
it.
At work, the converter should already be there: it was published about two
years ago by Microsoft. It may be set to "Install on Demand", just
double-click a file and Word will go and get it. If it isn't, tell your
system administrator they've slipped up, and they'll drop it in for you.
Hope this helps
On 30/04/08 7:10 PM, in article ee88e7a.55@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"DeltaNick" wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Here's another problem that I've recently discovered.
>
> Although I keep a Normal.dotm file as default, I need to send a .doc file to
> my workplace (Windows XP Pro and Office 2003) and to my Windows machine, at
> home (Windows XP Home and Office 2003), from my Mac. So, I save files in .doc
> and send.
>
> At home, I receive TWO files, identically named, but of different size. The
> first is pretty much same size as on the Mac -- say 85KB -- and the second is
> normally something like 409B. The first opens fine, and is the same document
> as on the Mac. The second is pure gibberish, and asks whether I want it
> encoded for Windows, MS-DOS, or other format. Whatever I try, it's gibberish.
>
> At work, I receive only ONE file: the gibberish file.
>
> How can I get a file that I can use? The .docx format is of no use for me in
> this case, because with XP and Office 2003, I cannot read it. A converter may
> work at home, but I cannot install any software at work.
>
> Nick
What does this have to do with the Subject of this thread: Download
Templates?
Post a NEW message with the appropriate Subject & include all particulars
about your situation including complete version information. Also indicate
what type of OS environment the recipients are in if you can.
Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
On 5/13/08 11:29 AM, in article ee88e7a.59@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"Henrypersoon" wrote:
> Hey, most people are still using Office 2007; I have office 2008 when i send a
> word or excel doc via email; they can't open it. what i do to?
I know that this is probably the wrong forum, but I simply cannot figure out what the correct forum would be. This whole web site seems extremeley complicated. So here goes:
When I run the Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac Update 12.0.1 Update, it does not allow me to select a destination and says, "You cannot install Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac Update 12.0.1 Update on this volume. A version of the software required to install this update was not found on this volume."
I have already installed -- at least it appears to install -- "AutoUpdate-211UpdateEN.dmg." But I don't think anything happens ... it appears to install but doesn't.
How am I supposed to figure out what to do next? I've only been using microcomputers since the mid-1980s, and Word nearly as long. So, it's not as if I'm new to this.
Other computer companies list a telephone number and don't charge $49.00 for a call. But I can't even find a place to communicate via the Internet to get some support ... this "Templates" forum seems to be the closest.
Furthermore, one would think that a company as large, prosperous, and popular as Microsoft would want to support their customers and make it clear and easy to learn where and how to get that support. But everything associated with the Mactopia web site seems SO complicated that it must be done this way purposely: to wear the customer down and make him go away.
So, I would greatly appreciate your suggestion as to what I should do -- or where I should go online -- with my "Cannot Update Microsoft Office:Mac 2008" problem. I think others would like to know as well.
Generically, that error message means "I can't find the software I needed to
update". That's often because Microsoft Office is not in the Applications
folder of the boot partition, or because the disk that is found first
contains a copy of Office 2008 which is not in that location.
Microsoft lists a phone number.
It won't charge you to call about this: this is an "Installation problem".
They are free. The $49 is about half the cost of actually having trained
people ready to answer the phone (it costs a bit over a hundred bucks for a
computer company to pick up the phone...)
The only purpose in the charge is to slow down the idiots who won't read the
help.
I didn't bother to read the rest of your post: if you have a "Message for
Microsoft", this is not the place to put it. Only other customers here,
Microsoft is not reading this, and we have our own troubles: want to hear
about them?
The answer to this problem has been posted many times in here: post back to
me if you cannot find it.
Cheers
On 27/05/08 2:49 AM, in article ee88e7a.62@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"DeltaNick" wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> I know that this is probably the wrong forum, but I simply cannot figure out
> what the correct forum would be. This whole web site seems extremeley
> complicated. So here goes:
>
> When I run the Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac Update 12.0.1 Update, it does not
> allow me to select a destination and says, "You cannot install Microsoft
> Office 2008 for Mac Update 12.0.1 Update on this volume. A version of the
> software required to install this update was not found on this volume."
>
> I have already installed -- at least it appears to install --
> "AutoUpdate-211UpdateEN.dmg." But I don't think anything happens ... it
> appears to install but doesn't.
>
> How am I supposed to figure out what to do next? I've only been using
> microcomputers since the mid-1980s, and Word nearly as long. So, it's not as
> if I'm new to this.
>
> Other computer companies list a telephone number and don't charge $49.00 for a
> call. But I can't even find a place to communicate via the Internet to get
> some support ... this "Templates" forum seems to be the closest.
>
> Furthermore, one would think that a company as large, prosperous, and popular
> as Microsoft would want to support their customers and make it clear and easy
> to learn where and how to get that support. But everything associated with the
> Mactopia web site seems SO complicated that it must be done this way
> purposely: to wear the customer down and make him go away.
>
> So, I would greatly appreciate your suggestion as to what I should do -- or
> where I should go online -- with my "Cannot Update Microsoft Office:Mac 2008"
> problem. I think others would like to know as well.
>
> Nick
On 5/27/08 5:49 AM, in article ee88e7a.62@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"DeltaNick" wrote:
> I know that this is probably the wrong forum, but I simply cannot figure out
> what the correct forum would be. This whole web site seems extremeley
> complicated
The Mactopia interface isn't as we'd like to see it, but the folks involved
are truly working as hard as they can to improve it & they've actually made
a lot of headway since it was launched. That said, it really isn't so much
"complicated" as "cumbersome". There is a separate group for each program in
the suite. If the issue pertains to one of those programs, post to that
group. If the issue applies to more than one program or interaction between
two or more Office programs post it to the Office group. You can search for
replies when you return or you can use the Subscribe methods on the site, bt
most 'regulars' prefer to use a news reader rather than the web interface...
Entourage works well for that purpose and there are others.
I think your experience has been less than satisfying for some of the
following reasons - not being critical, but just offering observations to
help clarify some of the things that cause many people frustration;
First, you're initial message was submitted as a reply to a previous thread
(downloading templates) which had no bearing on the concerns you expressed
(modifying Normal). It also appears you've "locked into" this one thread &
have submitted several different postings on completely divergent topics.
When you jump into a pre-existing thread or interject separate issues they
get lost in the shuffle, tangles things more & it makes it more difficult
for anyone- including you - to follow the conversation,
Second, I'm not sure you've learned to use the Search feature effectively.
Answers to many of the items you've posted on have been provided repeatedly,
and I'm sure you can understand that the responders get a bit frustrated by
having to repeatedly answer the same question when the answer is already
there if one takes the time to look. Also, keep in mind that if the
suggestions that solved the problem for others don't resolve your problem
there must be something *different* involved which merits a new message.
[My personal "rule of thumb" (FWIW): If you're tempted to start off a reply
with anything that even sounds close to "I have the same problem", you're
wrong to continue for at least one of three reasons; 1) If it is the same
problem but hasn't been solved there's no purpose to posting a "me too" -
return later, read & learn, 2) If the solution has been provided, use it -
it should work for you, too, so there's no need to reply, and 3) If you've
tried the solution & it *didn't* work you must have a different - albeit
similar - issue so post a new message, don't reply to that one.]
Third, you have a tendency to lump several different, totally unrelated
issues into the same message. I understand the logic, but with support
newsgroups that logic doesn't apply. Each issue should be submitted as a
separate, concise message in the appropriate group with an accurate &
descriptive Subject Line & relevant details in the body. Use the "Ask a new
question" button liberally... It's easier for you as well as for others to
follow what has been offered, tried & succeeded/failed.
The folks who volunteer their time here are more than willing to go out of
their way to help on a topic if they can - it's unbelievable the extent many
will go to to test, reproduce & research in order to offer solutions. But
they can't - and won't = spend a half hour tying to extract cogent pieces
from what amounts to an e-tronic edition of War & Peace:-) It also does no
good to rant about MS prices, practices, policies, etc. - we have *NO*
control whatsoever over what MS does. It isn't that we object to criticism
of MS - you're welcome to go on national TV & berate them in a 24 hr.
infomercial if you wish, but here it just muddies the waters. It's simply
our chosen avocation to assist others in their use of the products.
Again, please don't take offense = and I'm certainly not saying that you are
"guilty" of all the above. My only objective is to make your experience -
and perhaps the experience of others - more positive.
You were downloading from the Office for Windows site, right? Active
X controls do not work on the Mac ... at all. Some of the templates designed
for Windows Word *will* work and others will not. To work around some
of these issues (not counting the Active X issue), see this article:
Well, I'm sure you know more about your situation than anyone here does:-)
There's no indication of what version of OS X, what version of Office -
whether it even _is_ Office - what the specific nature of the problem is,
what program is involved, what happens when you try to "get in" or what your
problem has to do with the subject of this thread - "Download Templates".
If you expect any assistance post a NEW message in the appropriate group
(this doesn't sound like a Word issue at all) rather than *replying* to an
unrelated issue & be sure to include all relevant details. Someone will be
willing to help, but they will need a reasonable amount of information
before they can even know where to begin.
Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
On 7/11/08 12:46 AM, in article ee88e7a.67@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw,
"theartist1@officeformac.com" wrote:
> I do not know why I can not get in my email messanger
"Clip Art" & "Templates" are two completely different animals, clip art
being the more universally compatible of the two. Although the category has
been expanded [in the mind of MS] to include pictures, movies & sound
effects, the objects themselves are usable on most any OS & they can be
inserted into most any type of file.
Templates, however, are pre-constructed documents in and of themselves, used
as models for creating new documents based on them. Many of the templates
available from the MS site contain objects created using ActiveX Controls -
such as Calendar objects & programmed fields. ActiveX is a Windows-based
technology which is not supported by the Mac OS, so those templates
containing ActiveX Controls won't work on a Mac.
As John indicated, there are hundreds of templates available which don't
employ ActiveX which can be downloaded to & used on a Mac. The link he
provided will be of assistance in doing so. Although I haven't done so, I
understand that some of the ActiveX templates can be modified on a PC to
remove the ActiveX elements, then moved to a Mac. I've never bothered to
prove it because the ActiveX Controls are usually what make the template
what it is in the first place - removing them would most likely render the
template useless
There aren't as many templates designed specifically for Mac because it is a
much smaller market & because so many of the "PC" templates do work in Mac
Office. Most Mac template for 2008 are already on your system - Go to File>
Project Gallery to access them as well as the following link for more:
Begin by posting your own question and not trying to tack it on to an
un-related thread in here.
When you post your own question, the system feeds us a whole lot of
important information that will make it possible to answer your question.
Without that information, all I can say is "I don't know".
On 27/07/08 1:05 PM, in article ee88e7a.80@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "" <>
wrote:
> I am very new with Mac I lost my virtual PC how can I get it back.
Extending on John's comments: There is a specific news group for Virtual PC
on the Mac: microsoft.public.mac.virtualpc
You'd do far better to ask this question there rather than the Word news
group... And you'll need to supply a significantly greater amount of
supporting detail as to what you had configured and what may have caused you
to "lose" it. Version specifics will also be needed.
Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
On 7/26/08 11:05 PM, in article ee88e7a.80@webcrossing.caR9absDaxw, "" <>
wrote:
> I am very new with Mac I lost my virtual PC how can I get it back.
Just seeking a little clarification. Don't think I'm going to like the answer.
I have a Sony Vaio desktop (family computer) and a new MacBookPro laptop (mine, all mine). My resume is currently on the desktop in Word 2007 (XP) saved in a 93-2000 compatibility format since when I emailed it to people they kept emailing me back saying please send only Word attachments. When I loaded the resume onto the laptop and ran a compatibility check it noted that the template was not present.
From what I am reading here, I am never going to have compatible templates from my 2007 (XP) version and my Mac version of Word. Is that correct? So essentially the representation that I will be able to exchange documents with my business partners running PCs was false? Or true only to the extent that they don't use any sort of formatting...
> Just seeking a little clarification. Don't think I'm going to like the answer.
I think you will. Pray continue....
> I have a Sony Vaio desktop (family computer) and a new MacBookPro laptop
> (mine, all mine). My resume is currently on the desktop in Word 2007 (XP)
> saved in a 93-2000 compatibility format since when I emailed it to people
> they kept emailing me back saying please send only Word attachments. When I
> loaded the resume onto the laptop and ran a compatibility check it noted that
> the template was not present.
>
> From what I am reading here, I am never going to have compatible templates
> from my 2007 (XP) version and my Mac version of Word. Is that correct? So
> essentially the representation that I will be able to exchange documents with
> my business partners running PCs was false? Or true only to the extent that
> they don't use any sort of formatting...
You might be getting a bit tangled with the concepts here.
The format of a Word file is the same on PC Word 2007 and Mac Word 2008
with a couple of exceptions. Each should be happy with the other. You
don't send any kind of template along with your file. A Windows-written
template, should you choose one, should be OK for a starting point on
your Mac. As long as you don't expect macros. Only the terminally naive
include macros in e-mailed documents except by special prior
arrangement, since the recipient's corporate mail server should
quarantine them as dangerous malware.
(grin)
The people who mailed you back were bitten by Mail.app or whatever
e-mail sending program you use, not by Mac Word. There is a checkbox at
the bottom of the choose attachment window in Mail.app labelled "Send
Windows-Friendly Attachments". If you can't find a similar checkbox in
your mail program, zip the Word doc before attaching it.
You may invoke a zipping in Mac OS X Leopard's Finder with a
right-click on your document and choose "compress..." from the
contextual menu that appears. Earlier versions invite you to "Make
Archive" at the same spot
So, to summarise, you should like the answer. The 'representation' is
mostly true. Many of us exchange documents for a living with business
partners running PCs.
You simply have to tell your mailer that the intended recipient is not
as sophisticated as it might expect, and it needs to curb a certain
feature called a resource fork that only serves to confuse the less
fortunate among your business partners computers.
They probably see a small file of the same name alongside the attached
Word file in their mail reader. That's how they unpack the resource
fork. It confuses the hell out of their software.
--
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248
